Comments on: Crisis of Faith(less)

By: ildi

ildi — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:44:00 +0000

“Trey, arguing about biblical interpretations and details is like debating over whether Humpty Dumpty was an egg or a person.”

LOL! Very late to the party from Carnival of the Godless – but I just may have to steal that line. Can you forgive me?

By: Carnival of the Godless #106: Holiday Feast Edition « An Apostate’s Chapel

Sun, 07 Dec 2008 02:58:39 +0000

[...] Reed Braden presents Crisis of Faith(less), posted at Homosecular Gaytheist (and friends!). Read his post to discover what led him to say [...]

By: Trey Jackson

Trey Jackson — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:03:57 +0000

Hey, let’s not get snippy. I’m just trying to have an intelligent conversation about the top selling book of all time. If you don’t feel you can dialogue about it, just let me know.

By: Rev. Reed Braden

Rev. Reed Braden — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:57:05 +0000

Trey, arguing about biblical interpretations and details is like debating over whether Humpty Dumpty was an egg or a person. Sure, in relation to the literature, interpretation means a lot… in reality, however, it’s a fairy tale either way you look at it.

By: Trey Jackson

Trey Jackson — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:54:24 +0000

Oh yeah, and you never invited me to do research with you.

And thanks for imagining me with a katana.

By: Trey Jackson

Trey Jackson — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:35:26 +0000

Reed,

You are certainly correct in saying that my theology is not the only theology of Christians, but the same could be said of what you heard in your Baptist church as well. My understanding is based on my experience and my study of the Bible, which I am able to do better everyday.

As far as the issue of forgiveness goes, the Bible teaches that the only people that you need ask for forgiveness from are those whom you have sinned against. We don’t seem to have any problem when it comes to the people, but then you go on to say that you feel no need to apologize to a Creator either. It is not as if you have sinned against people, and God always demand you apologize to him, not because you wronged him but just because he likes apologies. It is that you have sinned against a person, but also a holy God. When you steal from someone, you are stealing their goods and defacing God’s Image (mankind), exhalting your desires over God, and pissing on what Christ has done to allow you to be right with God. It is because of all of those things that I would say that yes, forgiveness from God is necessary.

Cereal, on your points, I agree with you to some extent but side with Reed more. A person may be a “good” driver, but that doesn’t trump the fact that he killed a lot of people. A woman may be a “good” worker, but if she kills her children, that weighs a little heavier. It is certainly good that you want to have a fuller view of a person, but there are still some acts which must and will be weighed more than others I would place rape, intentional homicide, genocide, and some others in that category. It doesn’t mean I couldn’t admit something good about them, but overall I would call them a bad person.

By: Rev. Reed Braden

Rev. Reed Braden — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:13:24 +0000

Well, we can agree to disagree, but I still think anyone who knowingly and willingly commits a murder is a bad person. Someone who knowingly and willingly commits several people is a really bad person. I’ll let you disagree with me, but I’m going to go ahead and call you a terrorist sympathiser.

Cereal pals around with murderers.

By: Cereal

Cereal — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:26:22 +0000

I agree with you Reed on most of these points. I won’t comment on the God’s forgiveness part, since I don’t believe in one in the first place and I definitely don’t want to put words in the mouth of Christian followers. However, I will say that yes, the four men you mentioned are murderers and I personally understand that what they did was “wrong” as far as society goes. But does that make them bad people? Of course not. People’s opinions and beliefs vary from the common to the extreme, you must take in all of them to fully get the broadest spectrum for human belief in a cause. I also don’t believe in writing someone off with a title, good or bad. I don’t think saying that someone is a bad person or a good person is just… because, back on my point, a good thing for one person is a bad thing for another. Not trying to cause argument or say your wrong, I’m just pointing out that although we do “write off” people as titles or states of being (even I do), I still don’t think it’s right and justifiable to do so.

By: Rev. Reed Braden

Rev. Reed Braden — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:33:53 +0000

I seemed to have missed “Thou shalt not suckerpunch.”

And your theology isn’t the only theology, Trey. Some of us grew up learning that your victims’ forgiveness wasn’t enough, you also needed God’s forgiveness for the same sin: Not a generic ‘breaking the law’ sin, but the actual sin itself. Because God is in everyone, raping someone is like raping God… or something like that.

However, in a rational society, a dispute that’s already solved–say, I punched out three of your teeth, bought a billboard calling your mother a pirate whore and took your girlfriend’s virginity, but, against all odds, you put down your katana and forgave me an dropped all charges (legal and vigilante) as I pleaded for your mercy in a pool of my own sweat, tears, urine and faeces–needs no further absolution. Solved disputes are solved disputes. For unsolved disputes, we have the legal system, and that’s good enough.

By: Trey Jackson

Trey Jackson — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:20:22 +0000

You don’t ask forgiveness from God for things you do to your fellow man; you ask God for forgiveness for sins your have committed against him. If I sucker punch a guy in the street, I need to ask his forgiveness for the punch and God for grieving him by breaking his law.